HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-07-08 Commissioner Minutes
THURSDAY, JULY 8, 2010
The Franklin County Commissioners met Thursday, July 8, 2010, with the
following members present: David S. Keller, Robert L. Thomas and Robert G.
Ziobrowski. Chairman Keller presided and after calling the meeting to order, and the
Pledge of Allegiance proceeded with the business of the day.
On a motion by Robert L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski;
unanimously approved to adopt the agenda.
On a motion by Robert L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski;
unanimously approved all bills presented and ordered paid.
On a motion by Robert L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski;
unanimously approved the minutes of June 29, 2010 and July 1, 2010 meetings.
On a motion by Robert L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski;
unanimously approved the Salary Board minutes of July 1, 2010.
The Board reviewed Adult Probation matters. On a motion by Robert L. Thomas,
seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the Grant-In-Aid Continuing
Program to the Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole for the State Offender
Supervision Fund Agreement services requesting an amount of $1,082,351.00 for fiscal
year 2010-2011
The Board reviewed additional Adult Probation matters. On a motion by Robert
L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the Financial
Statement to Pennsylvania Board of Probation and Parole for funds expended for
improved adult probation services for the funding period of July 1, 2009 through June 30,
2010.
The Board reviewed Aging matters. On a motion by Robert L. Thomas,
seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the Updated 2009/2010
listing of contracts and amendments.
The Board reviewed Commissioners’ Office matters. On a motion by Robert L.
Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the Proposal from
Morefield Communications to provide software upgrade and support for the County’s
voice mail system at a cost of $22,632.00.
The Board reviewed additional Commissioners’ Office matters. On a motion by
Robert L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the
Proposal from Morefield Communications to provide a maintenance agreement for the
County’s telephone system at a total cost of $3,320.96.
The Board reviewed Magisterial District Judge office. On a motion by Robert L.
Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the 2010 Budget
Adjustment in the amount of $9,000.00 to appropriate budget for the completion of the
construction project and for rent related real estate taxes.
The Board reviewed Sheriff matters. On a motion by Robert L. Thomas,
seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the 2010 Budget Adjustment
in the amount of $850.00 to cover decal cost on new Sheriff vehicle.
Continued on page 2
The Board reviewed Visitors Bureau matters. On a motion by Robert L. Thomas,
seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the Professional Services
Agreement between the County of Franklin and Printed Image to complete the 2010
Visitors Guide at a cost of $39,451.25 for the period of July 8, 2010 through August 13,
2010.
The Board reviewed additional Visitors Bureau matters. On a motion by Robert
L. Thomas, seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski; unanimously approved the Professional
Services Agreement between the County of Franklin and Emily Gascoyne to provide
advertising design for print media for the Fall and Winter ad campaigns at a cost of
$3,000.00 for the period of July 8, 2010 through October 1, 2010.
In accordance with PA Act 14 notification, Valley Quarries, Inc. notified the
County of a Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection Bureau of Air Quality
permit being applied to install an extec screen at the Mt. Cydonia Plant #2 located in
Greene Township.
In accordance with PA Act 14 notification, Joyel Ministries notified the County of
a Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection sewage effluent permit being
applied for property located on Valley Camp Road, Greencastle.
The Board met with Richard Wynn, Human Services Administrator who provided
an update on the State budget and what each Human Services Department may receive
or may be reduced in funding.
Steve Ohm, Carter Goble Lee, met with the Board to provide a Facility Site Review
of the second Washabaugh proposal and provided a three page review to Board. There
is lack of adequate square footage due to need of additional 25,000 square footage that
would add 3.5 Million to costs for construction to Mr. Washabaugh’s costs. Jennings is
approximately 330,000 square feet. Parking would not create amount needed. The
parking garage size adds additional 5 Million to costs. If it’s still the desire to move
Human Services, Administration and Court functions on square, then all buildings would
need to be renovated. There is more of an opportunity to build at Jennings site without
interruptions plus would be difficult to build/renovate here. Contractors will look at
difficulties and costs will be added to bids. For additions, Jennings site is open and
downtown would be limited. Cost table comparison indicates it would cost more to build
downtown than at Jennings site. Mr. Ohm provided option comparison chart.
Commissioner Keller asked how confident is he on costs for both sites? Mr. Ohm
responded that County could sell the Sheetz building if you build downtown, so he would
agree with Washabaugh’s proposal. Commissioner Keller responded that County is
using this lot now, so that may not be an option, and would have to add this cost back in.
Commissioner Ziobrowski added that the Main Street site would require more
roadwork density. Mr. Ohm responded that would need traffic control, creating exits and
entrances onto Lincoln Way, would need traffic lights and turning lanes to get into and
out of parking lot.
Commissioner Ziobrowski said that Washabaugh’s proposal included purchasing
property from Church but CGL’s does not. Mr. Ohm said he did not include this
purchase because County would be sharing parking garage with Church.
Continued on page 3
Commissioner Thomas asked how much additional steel would cost to expand
Courthouse Annex vertically? Mr. Ohm responded that if you expand up it would
increase the budget numbers. Commissioner Keller said that it would be better if
expansion would be horizontal not vertical.
Commissioner Thomas said that he was told County should plan for seven
generations out.
Commissioner Ziobrowski responded that he’s not planning for seven generations
out. This is a comparison of Mr. Washabaugh’s proposal and Jennings proposal. Based
on CGL’s comparison would be cheaper to build at Jennings site if comparing apples to
apples. John Hart said that this is the normal process County goes through in any
construction process. Said County is bringing an Architect & Engineer (A&E) in and that
A&E will give various programs and scenarios, and address any environmental issues.
Number’s are not set in stone and County will have to hire an engineer for traffic study
and have to abide by Borough ordinance and PennDOT. A&E will provide further review
of number’s and run different studies.
Commissioner Ziobrowski asked if County should reserve site selection until further
review of A&E? John Hart responded that that’s a board call, but even if the board
makes a selection, the A&E can still look at both sites.
Commissioner Keller opened the floor to comments:
Barbara Lahr spoke and informed the Board that if County purchases Jennings’
Property then six acres of tax will be taken away and tax payers would have to
subsidize.
Joel Desotelle said he is confused and it is ironic that Human Services Administrator
was here talking about budgets and increase/decrease in services and costs. Said
administrator mentioned bigger budget problem on the horizon, calm before storm, using
their words. Suggested the County has a split personality, there is conflict between
trying to be fiscally responsible and at same time when looking at judicial site there is a
blank check. County would be strapping ourselves down with loan/bond obligations,
should take this into consideration. Second point is that focusing on judicial system
continues to be about space but fact is continue to have security issues, with school
across street – needs to be 1,000 feet away from school zone, not sure how Jennings
property can accommodate that. This proposal has not addressed this. This is a
community issue and unfair to not give an opportunity for people to provide comments
and should have an evening meeting. A lot more issues at hand, traffic issue and
environmental issues. There is a process about being open and available to public.
Safety and security concerns not just about money it’s a whole lot of things. Employee’s
hours were cut and services were cut, need to be economical. Not just for downtown
people it’s about 60 Million. Struggling as a single parent and have to make cuts.
Would impede the community to expand in other ways and how is this preparing for the
future? Need to look at bigger picture. Hospitals are downsizing and don’t want to be
over sizing. As far as expansion there is a lot of opportunity for expansion right here.
Chris Lahr wants clarification on RFP on Architect & Engineers: what are they
valuing. Sounds like RFP is for Jennings property. John Hart responded that if site is
selected they will look at that site and if not selected will verify number’s of all sites. Can
charge them to look at any options that want them to look at. They can work with one
site or all sites. Chris Lahr responded that looking at two sites is a lot of predevelopment
money. John Hart said that if look at multiple sites will add costs.
Continued on page 4
Larry Lahr spoke and numbers between Bernie Washabaugh and analysis now
has a $600,000 cost, so would be condescending. Read Criminal Justice Advisory
Board (CJAB) report and development and strategy from 2001-2008 and read mission
statement of CJAB. Single purpose and putting County and Commissioners in position
that everyone got together in CJAB and decided this is what we want. Never been a
secondary impact of where to go, Planning Commission has not involved, no one from
Borough involved. New Judicial Center at Jennings would be a great facility but would
take more tax money from County. Asked that RFP look at secondary unintended
consequences.
Becky Ernst asked if there is an extreme need at this time for an expansion, why
so difficult to run operations? Commissioner Keller responded that County needs to do
a better job of explaining the need. Said current facilities are overcrowded and court
operations are fragmented at multiple locations. Right now have court offices all over
town: Domestic Relations on Second Street, Adult Probation on Walker road, Day
Reporting Center on Loudon Street, Juvenile Probation at Franklin Farms, etc. System
is extremely fragmented. Significant Issues with overcrowding and inefficiencies. Also
significant issues with safety and security that have been discovered. Need to provide
more details and will do a better job of explaining it.
Ms. Ernst asked if County is thinking of including all those offices together?
Commissioner Keller responded at least on same campus. Regardless of where done,
would continue to make use of existing facilities for judicial purposes.
Paul Cullinane spoke and now that heard recommendations from CGL appears
interest is strongly pointed to Jennings Site and Skip Jennings will have to build another
site why not use this time to invite 2, 3, 4, 5 qualified development firms to submit
qualifications and have them come in to look at core campus and look at all other
possible sites and tell us what they think would be best site to construct this campus that
would embrace consolidation of outlying functions. If started several years ago, would
have a master plan. If do that and take time would be more acceptable to community
that you really thought this through. Knows that there is adequate space downtown that
to build the building and have ample parking. Always felt was important process to meet
the needs of the County and Judicial needs, especially in this horrible economy.
Functioning now and yes probably crowded but set CGL’s analysis aside and get a clean
effort and then compare and could be done on a short period of time. Community said
willing to work with County. Called all PA County’s & 100% of County’s have their
judicial functions downtown or within a few blocks of square.
Virginia Stake spoke and is interested in history, and was curious to hear what
Kittatinny Society Director said and her personal reaction was just what Paul Cullinane
said, she has been in a lot of court houses and all are located downtown. She would
have come today but was out of town.
Allen Piper spoke and does not have a dog in this fight but is interested to hear
the comments today. Looking at it from a financial standpoint because of what’s
happening in our country. Encouraged board to look at this issue deeply and look at
souls, hearts and minds. Look at costs and timing. Concerned about the costs with the
economy the way it is. Crime takes a big part of County’s budget and seems like
increasing in Franklin County. Why is this? Have a problem with that and perhaps
should take some of the money and take away from one entity and put signs up around
county when you enter or leave that if you commit the crime you do the time. Maybe
would be more cost effective and cut down cost of crime, just a recommendation. Or
Continued on page 5
Franklin County is no haven for the crime. Might have a more serious problem down the
road. Take time, don’t rush and take time to smell the roses. Board is elected to
represent us so should look at deeper, take time and don’t rush.
Mayor Pete Lagiovane is encouraged that Board has not focused on site as far
as A&E selection goes. Hopes A&E would specialize in downtown work but also be able
to work with Jennings site. Encourages the companies to submit plans based on
multiple sites. Maybe ideas will come forward that board hasn’t thought of yet.
Bernie Washabaugh, II spoke and just finds it unusual that for a 50 Million project
that a consultant would go off a newspaper article. Not trying to put anyone on the spot,
what is difference between cost of Main Street proposal and Jennings’s site? Difference
of about $13,000,000? Mr. Ohm responded that was asked to reference the article and
compare it and determine if it was correct.
Mr. Washabaugh responded that yes it was correct but he is used to a dialogue
and would have liked dialogue. Suggesting that if 25,000 square feet short would mean
you would have be build additional space, our costs to get to 58 Million would have
included the additional 25,000 square feet. If you did that, was there consideration to
include the 25,000 square feet? Asked if there was no consideration for Human
Services and Administration costs?
Mr. Ohm asked if review was to move Human Services and Administration
functions downtown? Commissioner Ziobrowski said that Mr. Ohm has presented an
apples to apples comparison. Mr. Washabaugh said would have to be some
consideration because would have that as a gain. Added that county code requires that
County build in the County seat which is Chambersburg. Jennings option puts building
into a commercial district and will make bold statement and say that the Jennings site
will not accommodate judicial center from a zoning standpoint. In CGL master plan
suggested that parking would be 535 spaces at Jennings site and his understanding is
that Sheetz is about 1.3 acres and could get 150 parking spaces there. Administration
Annex suggests that 110 parking spaces with that building. Said he has done an
analysis of zoning ordinance with borough. Chambersburg zoning ordinance in his
opinion would require one parking space for every 200 square feet of building. He has
analyzed the other site and the zoning ordinance has been ignored. In order to meet the
zoning requirement, 300 parking more parking are needed to support the Jennings,
Sheetz and Admin Annex. It’s another three acres. How does CGL propose to make up
the additional acres? Mr. Ohm responded that Jennings site offers more opportunity for
additional parking than current courthouse location.
Mr. Washabaugh said that would have to raze the Admin Annex and would still
be 130 short. If keep building would take up more square footage. Would need 853
parking spaces to support Jennings site selection. Commissioner Keller said that maybe
Planning and Zoning should answer that question or maybe a question that Borough
Council should answer. Said there is more to the parking issue then meets the eye.
Purpose of today’s meeting is to not shoot down anyone’s proposal but to compare
proposals. Makes a good point but idea is to get A&E on board and will give definite
answer. Already reached out to the Borough.
Mr. Washabaugh said the first thing to look at is zoning requirement. Can save a
lot of time and money if get the parking issue taken care off. If build in central core
district, there is no requirement for parking at all. Borough has parking available, no
need for parking garage.
Continued on page 6
Mr. Desotelle said consultant should have been looking at traffic, parking also,
from the start. It is hard as a citizen to judge what CGL or Washabaugh has to say.
These are big questions. Can’t understand how Commissioners can even think about a
decision because they don’t have all information in front of us. Commissioner Keller
responded that A&E’s will look into this, but CGL’s guidance input has been helpful. Mr.
Desotelle said CGL hasn’t seemed to look at any of these issues, school across street,
parking etc. Would rather hire people qualified to look at this.
Steve Ohm responded that CGL was hired by County to provide advice based on
knowledge and experience which is what it has done. All issues would be better solved
and cheaper at Jennings site; the issues could be solved downtown but would be
costlier.
Virginia Stake asked if there was an environmental study of Jennings site.
Knows what was located there for years which could have been a polluter of ground.
Before Gayman business was there, Cumberland Valley Railroad may have been there.
It has been an industrial site which could lead to environmental issues. Need to look at
potential environmental issues to that site. Commissioner Keller responded that the
board shares concerns about environmental issues and asked Steve Ohm if those costs
are included in his cost estimates for both locations and he responded that all are
considered in costs. John Hart added that when Sheetz property was purchased
environmental issues were considered and taken into consideration before purchased.
County will do due diligence prior to purchase of any property. Preliminary assessment
says that there are not any environmental issues.
Bernie Washabaugh, Sr. said he has served the Borough for 30 years. He is
present today as residents and former officials. Not making a nickel off this and neither
is son but glad that he is caring for his community. A lot of people don’t want to do
anything. Nobody has had a chance to give two cents in this. When on Borough Council
when there were projects, council opened up to public and County is not doing that.
Hard to believe that County is considering Jennings site. CGL has been put on the spot
by locking them in to the Jennings site and thinks that someone is pushing this site.
Steve Ohm responded that he objects and absolutely not, won’t allow him to question his
integrity. CGL has been reviewing and studying sites for over a year.
Mr. Washabaugh, Sr. asked where the other proposals are. Steve Ohm
responded that reviewed Norland Avenue, Jennings, N. Main & Lincoln Way East, etc.
Mr. Washabaugh, Sr. said that haven’t even seen a picture of site on Jennings. Should
see other proposals and have public hearings on each at night. What’s rush? This will
be here for a long time. We’re here to do what is good for community. Not getting a fair
shake.
Virginia Stake said that every citizen here could look at studies that have been
done for the County on County’s website. She has printed them off and has reviewed
them. In defense of the County, Commissioners and John Hart and the consultant, she
said there is a lot of information out there and it can be accessed. Everyone needs to
look at that too and be aware. She is trying to be objective too. Have to give them credit
and have spent a lot of time looking and reviewing things.
Mike Kalathas spoke that always talking about downtown and depends what
everyone thinks downtown is. Downtown to him is down Main Street and Lincoln Way.
Commissioner Keller responded that intent has not been to define what downtown is.
Continued on page 7
Mr. Kalathas acknowledged that if judicial center is built at Jennings then
administration and human services would consolidate downtown. Would increase total
number of employees downtown by 40% which would be beneficial to downtown core.
During A&E process should look at the economic impact of downtown if do this.
Steve Ohm responded that he has presented the facts and the Commissioners
have difficult decisions to make. Mr. Kalathas asked Steve Ohm if ever experienced
public reaction at other projects? Mr. Ohm loves this part of the process, seeing small
government at work.
Commissioner Thomas said that board needs to get better at explaining to the
public the need for expanding court facilities. Had two independent studies done. There
is a lot of pressure on them today. He is being objective. Borough Council member said
that the County is not planning and is pushing this through which he disagrees with and
the studies on the website are proof of that. CJAB includes Criminal Justice, Borough
and community members. Not doing this in a vacuum.
Bernie Washabaugh, Sr. asked when was meeting advertised for public?
Commissioner Thomas answered that it’s advertised on website day before & sent to
media. Mr. Washabaugh said that’s not enough notice for public and not everyone has
computer. Why not have meetings at night when people can attend? Need to make it
more public.
Bernie Washabaugh, II said that its been mentioned that backfill would come
downtown, what would be timeframe? John Hart explained who would be moving and
that the moves would result in an increase in total employees working in central core by
40%. All Administration and Human Services offices. Steve Ohm said could happen
simultaneously. Mr. Washabaugh asked what would happen to building on Franklin
Farm? John Hart responded that there are several options.
Bernie Washabaugh, Sr. asked why County can’t build 160,000 square feet
going up on Main Street if eliminate Harmon’s and go up street? Our responsibility is to
build what we can afford, can only do so much. If you build up, not out, and make
people walk, project can be done downtown. Have to protect our community. No dog in
the fight and Bernie spent his own time and money to do the proposal.
Chris Washabaugh said that he has used the courthouse for years, have traveled
to other courthouses and has an understanding of courthouses on public side. We have
more attractive setting for a courthouse. It is doable to build a new courthouse beside
old courthouse. Asked if there is a law that says a courthouse has to be a 1,000 ft from
school?
Mr. Desotelle said that there is Federal Law that druggies and parolees could not
be close to a school and it’s a drug free zone. Solicitor Mary Beth Shank said that drug
free school zone has to do with delivery of drug substance and has to do with what
sentencing would be. Mr. Desotelle asked if she doesn’t have a problem having
criminals being close to a school? Commissioner Ziobrowski asked when was the last
time a shooting or anything happened close to the courthouse, noting that King Street
School is close to the courthouse, as is King Street Church which has a day care center.
Mr. McLaughlin responded that can’t recall any incidents but should have asked the
Mayor before he left the meeting. Mr. Desotelle again questioned a site selection that
would create security concerns for a nearby school. Commissioner Ziobrowski said that
we are talking about two different safety and security issues; we’re talking about safety
Continued on page 8
and security of participants and judges, not about the place where kids will be. Mr.
Washabaugh, Sr. said that putting this judicial center near a school will cause security
issues for the school.
Virginia Stake said that she has a copy of Main Street proposal. Courthouse in
that diagram would only be where the CADC & LightenUp Chambersburg properties are.
Harmon’s would be renovated and then referenced parking garage. If do need to go up
to 160,000 square feet, common sense is that if do it here then would have to go up two
stories and tried to visualize what would look like. Then thought what if need to have
more space personally seven stories would be all she would like to see. One thing is
she likes the parking garage, could see for security reasons for judges in this day and
age. Could have them park and go over into the center safely. This is just her opinion.
Why wouldn’t this work well for security? Commissioner Keller responded that points
well taken, A&E will look at all options and consider security.
The meeting was adjourned at 12:05 p.m. with a motion by Robert L. Thomas;
seconded by Robert G. Ziobrowski.
FRANKLIN COUNTY COMMISSIONERS